Comments on Chuck Woodbury's Roadside Journal: Motorhome crashes with 13 people aboard

Don't know about others, but my motorhome has ...

2009-12-12T20:04:18.532-08:00

Don't know about others, but my motorhome has a CCC of better than 4,000 lbs. 13 people on a day trip wouldn't be a problem. As for seat belt laws, I've been told several times by those who should know, they ONLY apply to the two front seats of the motorhome - irregardless of the age of the passengers. Passenger car laws DO NOT apply to motor homes, at least not in western states.

The real problem was probably the brake failure and, perhaps, driver error in not knowing how to keep his speed down.

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2009-11-03T06:59:00.205-08:00

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In most States, the seat belt law only applies to ...

2009-09-03T19:33:06.464-07:00

In most States, the seat belt law only applies to the driver and front seat passengers if they are adults. Children normally have separate seat belt/booster/child seat laws to protect them from injury because they can not make a safety decision on their own. Ed K.

Let's see, driver and passenger, maybe a swive...

2009-08-17T19:16:17.415-07:00

Let's see, driver and passenger, maybe a swivel chair, two sofas with three people each, and four in the dinette. That's thirteen people. Now, the coach probably came with signs at some of those seats saying not for occupancy while driving. The owner's manual should point that out also, and the weight label should give the owner some hint that a ton or so of people is more than the coach is designed to carry.

The fact that you can tow five tons with a diesal pusher isn't relevant to the weight in the coach itself - the towed vehicle is required to have it's own brakes if over a modest weight limit.

Sounds like whoever sold, rented, or loaned the coach didn't do a good job of educating the user.

It is always easy to critize everyone else and the...

2009-08-17T13:29:26.817-07:00

It is always easy to critize everyone else and their opinion.

WOW. 13 People - way too many for one coach under...

2009-08-16T09:49:15.664-07:00

WOW. 13 People - way too many for one coach under any circumstances. As to the reason, if it is a Workhorse problem - there is a recall for 49,000 coaches on brakes that the new parts have not yet been manufactured. So sadly we are staying local, no mountains until we can get the brakes fixed.

As to Anonymous - the Poster was correct. This driver should have known better & could have endangered you and your family if you were in the area.

I agree with Chuck, the coach was overloaded. I...

2009-08-16T09:38:10.300-07:00

I agree with Chuck, the coach was overloaded. I'm sure the CCC (combined carrying capacity) of that coach did not equal the average weight of 13 people, their gear, the loaded refrigerator, and all the gear in the basement compartments. It appears the coach was a diesel pusher, and it would most likely have had an engine braking mechanism which the driver didn't use or didn't use effectively. service brakes are not intended to slow down 24-32,000 lbs all the way down the mountain. starting in too high of a gear, then trying to slow it down with the service brakes causes brake overheating and failure, resulting in a crash normally unless there's a runaway truck ramp available. I probably wouldn't call the driver a "pin-head", but he was most likely poorly educated in driving large heavy vehicles in the mountains, happens all the time. I followed a trucker through the Rockies that was scared to death and had to be talked over the mountain passes on the CB because he had no knowledge of mountain driving in big rigs or any other vehicle for that matter. By the way, "laying down" a vehicle to stop it is inane, I hear it from motorcyclists all the time, that's the ultimate loss of control....I teach motorcycle safety and I've never "laid down" my bike to stop it in any situation.
Sign me, NOT Anonymous, my name is Dan, and I'll be on road in my 35' Diesel puller RV and I'll wave high as I go by!

It is obvious from the picture that the driver rod...

2009-08-15T18:50:12.036-07:00

It is obvious from the picture that the driver rode along the culvert dragging the curbside of the coach to slow it down to a stop. Had the coach been flipped on it's side the fiberglass on the side would be shredded and the side windows gone. The driver may have made an error by overloading the coach but did a tremendous job saving the lives of all 13 passengers.

Anyone watch the Great American Roadtrip? Only the...

2009-08-15T16:39:00.839-07:00

Anyone watch the Great American Roadtrip? Only the driver wears a seat belt while the rest of the family is walking and/or playing around. I have even seen them stand beside the driver talking to him/her. And the drivers do not always drive the safest.

That many people on that RV certainly wasn't o...

2009-08-15T12:21:03.363-07:00

That many people on that RV certainly wasn't overloaded. If you are pulling a toad behind it would certainly would weigh more, most people like to put their mouth in gear and leave their brain idling, that being said the driver should have been ticketed for too many of the people didn't have seatbelts and the baby probably wasn't a car seat.

So the brakes probably would have failed anyway. Most people will sign in anonymous because of clowns like you.

I say be glad they are all ok,number one! Number 2...

2009-08-15T12:18:38.384-07:00

I say be glad they are all ok,number one! Number 2, I think he did a bang up job (no pun intended) in stopping the rig. We don't know the circumstances of the brake failure. There are many things to look at here besides saying that driver shouldn't drive a motor home again. If someone looses brakes in a car, do we say, He/she should not drive a car again?? I don't think so!! To many people yes, and i'm sure they learned their lesson,,,,the hard way.

A shame to see an RV looking this way, but glad to...

2009-08-15T08:07:22.251-07:00

A shame to see an RV looking this way, but glad to hear that injuries were minor.
I'm gonna guess that they were new to RVing...or they wouldn't have been that loaded....probably a reason the brakes failed.

I'm a bit surprised that no citations were issued....most states have seat-belt laws, but maybe the officer felt sorry for them?

It would be interesting to know what caused the br...

2009-08-15T07:58:45.637-07:00

It would be interesting to know what caused the brake failure. I wonder if it could be that the brake fluid got hot and boiled out if it had bosch brakes. There is a recall on some fleetwood motor homes for that reason. I don't know about Gulfstream.
MH

Sounds like 'Anon...' has never done a stu...

2009-08-15T07:53:27.466-07:00

Sounds like 'Anon...' has never done a stupid thing or at least never admitted it... Let's see, most MHs might have 5 - 6 seats with seat belts, then where did the others sit??? Also, 13 folks would add about a ton on average to the normally 'overloaded' MH! Guess the driver forgot rule #2 on hayrides - don't go downhill with an overloaded hay wagon....

Altho' you stated the driver should be be able...

2009-08-15T07:26:54.539-07:00

Altho' you stated the driver should be be able to pilot an RV again, I'd say the driver was pretty good at driving if (s)he was able to lay the rig down to stop it. That sounds like a move I'm sure I wouldn't be able to accomplish, unless of course the lay down was not due to the driver's ability. Just my 2 cents.

I know different states have different laws for wh...

2009-08-15T06:42:42.734-07:00

I know different states have different laws for who is required to wear seatbelts while traveling. If the driver were in compliance with those laws, then he did nothing wrong in that regard.

We do not know why the brakes failed. Improper use? Broken part? Again, the driver made a choice to lay it over rather than continue out-of-control. It would seem, on the surface, that he saved lives with that move. Many more have continued down the highway to meet a much different ending.

We do not have all the details that would allow us to make any judgement about the driver, the vehicle, or the situation they encountered. The police did not issue a citation - perhaps an indicator of legality? Compassion? Again, we don't know.

Injuries can heal (hopefully). Death is irreversible. This will be a trip EVERYONE on board will remember (except the baby). If there were any lessons to be learned here, it's that we cannot make snap judgements without all the information (Obama come to mind?).

I'd like to know more about the background of ...

2009-08-15T06:34:51.859-07:00

I'd like to know more about the background of this incident and more about the subject of RV brake failure in general. Were the brakes badly maintained or not suitable for this load? I can see how a driver could think that the number of seat equals the number of potential passengers.

I, too, think that you were a little harsh in judging the driver--facts don't always speak for themselves.

this is really scary. The first responder is proba...

2009-08-15T06:26:02.092-07:00

this is really scary. The first responder is probably another RVr who has no idea the weight of his rig! Thank goodness no other vehicles were involved.

notice mr anonymous was too scared to print his na...

2009-08-15T06:05:01.791-07:00

notice mr anonymous was too scared to print his name while you Mr Woodbury show yours....and I agree with you completely, and the other writer...this is a motor home not a bus...people need to exercise some common sense and sound judgement....obviously "anonymous" is not one of them....keep up the great RV reporting

I'm wondering why the air brakes on this DP fa...

2009-08-15T05:49:38.014-07:00

I'm wondering why the air brakes on this DP failed? Was the rig going down a long, steep grade? Did the driver not know how to brake down a grade? Was the exhaust brake used? Did he manually downshift?

Oy. What a mess -- those people were lucky -- at ...

2009-08-15T04:57:01.172-07:00

Oy. What a mess -- those people were lucky -- at the least.

RT

Anonymous 0857, the writer didn't "bash&q...

2009-08-15T04:46:04.796-07:00

Anonymous 0857, the writer didn't "bash" anyone. He stated the truth. A lot of us out here agree with him. Not only did the driver of this MH endanger himself and his passengers (friends/loved ones???), he endangered all the drivers in his vicinity. This many people in a MH was no less irresponsible than going down the road with 9 people crammed into a 4 seat sedan. No matter how big a MH is, very few are designed as troop transports. People need to know the capabilities and capacity of their vehicle, as well as apply some common sense (when you run out of seat belts, etc.), or they need to stay off the road for the safety of all. When accidents happen under these circumstances, it reflects poorly on all of us trying to be responsible operators. Also, name-calling is even less attractive in adults than it is in grade schoolers. Grow up.

Anonymous at 8:57AM is the "pin head" as...

2009-08-15T02:38:08.869-07:00

Anonymous at 8:57AM is the "pin head" as 13 people in a motorhome is way too many! No wonder the brakes faled! The author of this article is spot on. Keep "pin heads" off the road!

It hurts to see a MH looking like this. I agree t...

2009-08-14T10:23:37.127-07:00

It hurts to see a MH looking like this. I agree there were too many people, it's distracting as well as overloaded. A motorhome is a coach not a bus.

Thanks for your opinion "pin head". I d...

2009-08-14T08:57:38.793-07:00

Thanks for your opinion "pin head". I don't care if you "pilot" RV's all day every day, it doesn't give you the right to bash these folks. So cool your engines and shut up